Untitled Document

21 October 2002

1. "Anxious Turkey ponders both war and elections", General Tommy Franks, commander of US forces in the Middle East, will be hard-pressed to avoid internal politics today when he visits Turkey to discuss possible US military action against Iraq.

2. "Barzani: We have a right to independence", 'But we know about international conditions and we know it's not possible to do everything whenever you want. Our views are clear. At the moment we definitely want a federal solution in Iraq within Iraq's boundaries...

3. "Osman Ocalan: The only solution is DEHAP", Kurdistan Congress of Freedom and Democracy (KADEK)stated that the only force to solve the problems in Turkey was DEHAP.

4. "Kurdish Commander: No one will again defeat us on Kurdish land", London (KurdishMedia.com) 20 October 2002: In an interview the Associated Press, a Kurdish commander in the Soran base in Iraqi Kurdistan claimed that the Kurdish forces would try to capture the oil rich areas in case of an American military strike on the Iraq.

5. "Let the Muslims Win", the Justice and Development Party, leading the polls for Turkey's upcoming elections despite the banning of its leader for pro-Islamist propagandizing, has a clever way of describing its new agenda. "Our aim is to bring more democracy to Turkey and to increase the level of human rights," says Mehmet Muezzinoglu, its Istanbul chairman.

6. "Fourteen years on, poison gas still chokes Halabja", for Doctor Tahsin Ali, the only thing that has come close to being quite as sickening as an Iraqi poison gas attack was one of the latest soundbites from US President George W. Bush.

1. - Financial Times - "Anxious Turkey ponders both war and elections":

ANKARA / October 2,1 2002

By Leyla Boulton in Ankara and Guy Dinmore recently in Arbil

General Tommy Franks, commander of US forces in the Middle East, will be hard-pressed to avoid internal politics today when he visits Turkey to discuss possible US military action against Iraq.

Campaigning for Turkey's general election on November 3 has become embroiled in debate over Iraq.

Bulent Ecevit, the 77-year-old prime minister who is expected to lose the elections, warned last week that Turkey was being dragged into war against its wishes.

But his junior partner, the conservative Motherland party, backed Turkish "participation" in a war on the grounds that it was better for Ankara to be involved than to be left on the sidelines.

For its part, the National Action party (MHP), the ultra-nationalist government party, reiterated earlier threats to invade the Kurdish-dominated enclave of northern Iraq to prevent Kurds from establishing an independent state there.

Although Turkey views a mostly US operation as dangerous and unnecessary, it is unlikely to deny Washington support - including the use of Turkish airbases in south-east Turkey - regardless of which party comes to power.

But it is also bargaining hard for economic compensation and guarantees that the US will not countenance the establishment of an independent Kurdish state.

Such issues are likely to come up as part of wider-ranging discussions between General Franks' delegation and Turkey's military leadership.

Early estimates of the cost to Turkey's fragile economy of a war on Iraq range from $9bn (£5.8bn) to $150bn.

Some officials and the influential military also fear renewed separatism among Turkish Kurds should Iraqi Kurds gain autonomy in a post-Saddam Hussein Iraq.

Iraqi Kurds, who say they make up about a quarter of the Iraqi population, do not hide their desire for independence. But in general, they concede this is not achievable in the near future.

Sami Abdul-Rahman, chief negotiator for the Kurdistan Democratic party (KDP), says the joint demand of the main Kurdish factions for a federal Iraq should not be a source of anxiety for other Iraqi ethnic groups nor the country's neighbours.

"No responsible Kurdish group or party or individual is working towards establishing a Kurdish state," he said.

2. - Turkish Daily News - "Barzani: We have a right to independence":

ANKARA / 21 October 2002

'But we know about international conditions and we know it's not possible to do everything whenever you want. Our views are clear. At the moment we definitely want a federal solution in Iraq within Iraq's boundaries... There's a difference between what you wish for and what you're capable of. We have wishes but we don't have the power to do it right now'
'I don't know what relevance Kirkuk has for Turkey, I can't understand that. According to opinion polls carried out in Iraq, Kurds have the majority in Kirkuk. As a result of these polls we saw Kirkuk as appropriate for the interests of Kurdish people... Perhaps the capital will not be Kirkuk, but everyone agrees for now that it should be Kirkuk'

Stating that "We have a right to independence like other peoples in the world and in the region to," Massoud Barzani, the leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) said, "But we know about international conditions and we know it's not possible to do everything whenever you want. Our views are clear. At the moment we definitely want a federal solution in Iraq within Iraq's boundaries... There's a difference between what you wish for and what you're capable of. We have wishes but we don't have the power to do it right now."

Barzani gave a live interview to Mehmet Ali Birand on private news channel CNN-TURK Friday evening and evaluated the current tension with Turkey and developments in northern Iraq and in the region in general. You can find large excerpts from this interview below.

Mehmet Ali Birand (MAB): Do you think Turkey is right? Would you have shown the same reaction to an independent Kurdish state in northern Iraq if it were the case?

Barzani: Above all our wishes imply absolutely no threat for Turkey. We are showing utmost respect for Turkey's interests and for regional security. If we were to oppose Turkey we would have lost our power; I'm saying this on behalf of all Kurds. We can't even think about opposing Turkey. I believe everyone should respect each other and pursue common interests.

MAB: Strange things have happened lately. You seem to be frustrated with Turkey in some statements; you are even sounding threats in some others. However Turkey made much contribution to the progress until now. Turkey had a lot of confidence in you. It didn't even trust Talabani as much as it trusted you. Now the situation has changed. Now you're angry with Turkey. Why are you angry with Turkey?

Barzani: Turkey is angry with us. We aren't angry with Turkey by any means. We think what Turkey does is natural.

MAB: There's an impression here that you will take the opportunity to declare your independence during a U.S. campaign to topple Saddam. You have a Constitution, you have a flag. Everything seems to be ready. What are you planning to do?

Barzani: This is our policy: we are working to keep things smooth in Iraq and we want our mutual relations to go for the better. This has been our policy until now and we will show all sorts of respect for Turkey after now. We are giving all the guarantees for the future as well. But we also have an important problem at hand, which is we think our people's rights have been violated for long years and we want everyone to show respect for our people and their law.

MAB: You say you're claiming your rights. What rights are you talking about? You have a flag on your side, you have a Constitution. You convened a parliament. Do you mean independence by "rights?" Because there's such a feeling here that you will declare your independence during the U.S. campaign against Saddam. Am I reading your words correctly?

Barzani: Our path is clear. We want a pluralistic administration in Iraq. We want a parliamentary and federal administration. And we want this to materialize within Iraq's own boundaries. We have no plans whatsoever to get separated from Iraq or declare independence.

MAB: I want to ask very clearly. You want to reclaim the rights of your people which have been taken away from them. Isn't this a step? Isn't it independence if you take another step?

Barzani: Mr. Birand, we know where we live and we know where our movement will take us and we're saying we are not aiming for independence. We want to resolve the Kurdish issue within Iraq's boundaries. We want neither independence nor discrimination. These are unnecessary concerns.

MAB: Your father was engaged in the same struggle. Don't you actually dream about independence? Maybe not now. But is there a timing for it? Could there be the right timing for such an issue?

Barzani: I can say clearly that my father spent his life for the independence of his people and we, too, believe in our cause. This is a rightful cause and we don't want to violate anyone else's rights. We have a right to independence like other peoples in the world and in the region do. But we know about international conditions and we know it's not possible to do everything whenever you want. Our views are clear. At the moment we definitely want a federal solution in Iraq within Iraq's boundaries. We are in a difficult situation. We would settle for a federal solution within Iraq's boundaries. But there's a difference between what you wish for and what you're capable of. We have wishes but we don't have the power to do it right now.

MAB: Do you think Turkey is right? Would you have shown the same reaction to an independent Kurdish state in northern Iraq if it were the case?

MAB: Mr. Barzani there's a headline in today's Milliyet. It says KDP's information bureaus in Europe have included a part of Turkey in their Kurdistan maps. But Turkey is not included in the maps printed here. There's a perception here that you're doing this not to frustrate Turkey and that you have this grand plan for the future to create a Kurdistan including Turkey. Would you enlighten us on this issue please? Do you have differing intentions like on these maps?

Barzani: We are talking about Iraq and Iraqi Kurdistan. We are not talking about anything beyond that and we don't accept that. We are talking about a Kurdistan which is within Iraq and we have no intentions to mess with the home affairs of a third country. Such a map has not been circulated. But the papers are free of course. There's freedom of press in Kurdistan but we are unfortunately subjected to undeserved accusations sometimes. Particularly the Turkish press is publishing untrue reports with no relevance to us. They are covering up the facts, turning them ugly.

MAB: Do you have an accord with the U.S.? Have you reached an agreement for the post-Saddam period?

Barzani: It's naturally impossible to distance ourselves from the events that are taking place and will take place in Iraq. We certainly have negotiated with the U.S. and we explained our views. But the U.S. hasn't so far told us about its own post-Saddam projects.

MAB: Why should Kirkuk be the capital? Because of oil? Why does Kirkuk matter to you? The Turkomans are quite sensitive about Kirkuk, too.

Barzani: I don't know what relevance Kirkuk has for Turkey, I can't understand that. According to opinion polls carried out in Iraq, Kurds have the majority in Kirkuk. As a result of these polls we saw Kirkuk is appropriate for interests of Kurdish people. Kirkuk is at the same time a place which unites the Kurds. It's an important region that serves economic interests of Kurds. Kirkuk is at the same time an Iraqi province. Kurds, Arabs and Turkomans live there. There's respect for everyone's rights and the oil is distributed equally. The importance of Kirkuk lies in the fact that it's a symbol for the unity of Kurdish people. Coming to the question why it should be the capital, it's a decision that emerged as a result of our negotiations. Kirkuk can't be separated from any other province and from any part of Iraq. The idea of the capital emerged during the negotiations but these talks are continuing. Perhaps the capital will not be Kirkuk and some other province, but everyone agrees for now that it should be Kirkuk and it appeared that Kirkuk symbolizes unity.

MAB: Meanwhile, Tariq Aziz had said in this show that Kirkuk belongs to them and that the Kurds would have to fight to take it. Turkomans have issued a statement recently as well, claiming that the region is theirs. That means you will fight for Kirkuk?

Barzani: Mr. Aziz knows the sensitivity of the issue. Tariq Aziz says it's Iraqi territory and some Turks say it's Turkish territory. This is a dispute which will take place between the two. They should resolve it between them. We will not give up Kirkuk of course because it's at the same time Iraqi territory. We can't disregard the fact that Kirkuk is also a Kurdistan territory.

MAB: Sami Abdurrahman said it and you said it as well that Turkey would sink in the quagmire there, that you would protect your rights. You sounded like you were threatening Turkey. Do you fear a Turkish military intervention? What will happen if there's an intervention? Aren't you provoking Turkey in a sense?

Barzani: Actually all these threats and blackmailing comes not from us but from some Turkish officials. We have been working together with Turkey to maintain stability in the region and we are saying military operation is not a solution. Everyone should respect territorial rights. Think about it: shouldn't we fight regardless of the nationality of any army that invades our territory? Don't you think we're right? But we don't want such a thing. We want our bilateral relations with Turkey to improve, and friendship and regional security to improve. We can't accept any state invading our territory.

MAB: Actually Turkey broke into your territory 14 times until now to fight PKK. You showed no reaction that time. Now Turkey says independence means a declaration of war and you say you will turn the place to hell. It seems like your attitude has changed, doesn't it?

Barzani: PKK used to be a threat to the region. But recent statements from certain officials indicate that any intervention in the region would not have the same purpose. We don't have a problem with the Turkish government in this region, we want to work together.

MAB: Aren't you afraid of Turkey's power?

Barzani: We are not afraid of anybody.

MAB: Doesn't this bother you: your passport has been taken from you. The Habur border gate is closed. Is that why you are frustrated? Because you lost a major source of income?

Barzani: I didn't have a Turkish passport in the first place. If I want to go to Turkey right now I could easily get a passport. I went to Germany in 1992 when Turgut Ozal was President. They gave me a diplomatic passport there and no one had any questions about it. When I returned I gave it back to the Turkish Foreign Ministry. I traveled with a Turkish passport only once and I returned it.

Going back to Habur, it was a very important border gate for us. It affected our position in the region greatly but it affected Turkey's position as well. And not only the two regions, but it must have affected Turkey more. We can live without Habur.

MAB: We know there are Turkish forces there. How many of them are there?

Barzani: Yes there are some troops and there's only a few of them. We will discuss this with Turkish officials once their term of assignment is over. We want these troops to go back.

MAB: Will you join forces with the U.S. against Saddam like the Northern Alliance did in Afghanistan?

Barzani: The U.S. didn't show us an option of war. There's a great difference in terms of position between us and Afghanistan. We are responsible for our 4 million people. They are in the line of fire and therefore we are responsible for the security and future of our people.

MAB: Is it easy to topple Saddam?

Barzani: It's easy for the U.S. to strike Iraq but I don't think it should be easy to topple Saddam.

MAB: What does the U.S. require to topple Saddam? Do you expect chaos during a U.S. operation?

Barzani: Well I think... Let's say the regime has changed... What then?

MAB: I'm asking you. What do you think will happen? That's what the public here is concerned about.

Barzani: We can't tell now. It's not clear yet.

MAB: Should we expect a huge wave of Kurdish immigration towards Turkey's borders in the case of chaos like the one in 1992?

Barzani: I don't expect such an immigration. It won't happen.

MAB: When your parliament convened, you sent a letter of goodwill to PKK. Why did you think it was necessary?

Barzani: We didn't send any letters to PKK. Who says that?

MAB: It was in the press...

Barzani: I wish Turkish papers reported the truth just for once. We didn't send any such thing. We see much of those lies in Turkish papers.

MAB: Is the conflict between you and PKK still going on or is that phase over? Are there no PKK camps in Iraq now?

Barzani: PKK received a major blow. It doesn't have the power it once had. It fought us, PUK and Turkey occasionally. And it's no more a threat to the region. PKK used to attack us, it wasn't us who attacked them. Our position has not changed. We are doing our best to protect our people and our interests.

MAB: Do they still exist in north Iraq?

Barzani: They certainly have camps in some mountainous areas.

MAB: The U.S. says it would establish democracy in north Iraq. You say that you have a right to independence but that you don't have power for the time being, and that it would come up when the time comes but that you want to create a single federation in a single Iraq. Could there be democracy in Iraq? Is it easy?

Barzani: Yes it's our goal and we believe that the Iraqi people want a democratic order. A democracy in the western meaning of the word doesn't exist in Iraq, unfortunately.

MAB: Aren't you excluding Turkomans in a sense?

Barzani: We are respecting the rights of our Turkoman brothers. They are our brothers. It's unthinkable for us to hold or do something against their independence. We wanted them to participate in the 1996 elections, but they didn't. They will have access to everything in the future. They will face no obstacles to participating in elections. They will be able to participate in elections like all other races. They are now trying to reclaim their rights and they are our brothers, but there are also some smearing campaigns and some mistakes there. The Turkish parliament should feel comfortable, the rights of Turkomans will not be violated by any means. We are inviting Turkish MPs to the Kurdistan parliament. They should come see the pluralism here. They should see our goals, what the Kurdish people want to do. There are Turkomans and they are getting their rights. We can't accept a third party coming to get rights for a group that exists here. I'm inviting you to come and see how many of Turkomans there are, what they want... Come and hold an election among them. We are ready to work with whomever gets elected. But we aren't accepting a third country mingling with us to protect the rights of a minority. They are our brothers and no one should regard himself as superior to law. Neither Kurds nor Turkomans. We have respect for them, we work together with them. We never violate their rights and we will continue to work together in the future.

MAB: A final question: you said you had a right to independence but that it will come up once the balance of power is restored. What is this balance of power like? When would it occur and has any country given you any guarantees about it?

Barzani: It's not possible to predict the timing of it now Mr. Birand. But you also know the world is changing. The conditions are not the same as ten years ago. Let's imagine what could happen ten years later. We don't know what will happen. We are talking about the current situation. Let's leave it to future generations to talk about the future.

MAB: You had a message for Turkomans. Do you have a message for Turkey?

Barzani: Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I explained my views to the Turkish public. We are brothers. We are working for the peoples of both regions. We are working for security and cooperation. We know Turkey is respectful of our rights.

3. - Kurdish Observer - "Osman Ocalan: The only solution is DEHAP":

Kurdistan Congress of Freedom and Democracy (KADEK)stated that the only force to solve the problems in Turkey was DEHAP.

MHA/FRANKFURT / 20 October 2002

Participated by telephone in the "Rojev" program on Medya TV, KADEK Presidential Council member Osman Ocalan commented on elections, repression on DEHAP, democratisation, the state of Kurds and the condition in South Kurdistan.

Stating that the solution to every problems and development in Turkey could only be secured by democratisation, Ocalan called on everybody to stop supporting anti-democratic groups.

The Kurdish leader commented on the repression on DEHAP, giving as a concrete example insistent efforts of Supreme Court Chief Prosecutor Sabih Kanadoglu to disqualify DEHAP as a party running in the elections: "Sabih Kanadoglu has made efforts to keep DEHAP from running in the elections. It does not have anything with lawfulness and it is a stance that is not appropriate with political ethics. It arises from fears for tremendous development of DEHAP."

Plot on DEHAP votes

Ocalan drew attention to the political aim of the official investigations on DEHAP and emphasized the following: "If we knew that CHP was a leftist party, we would support it. But they have liquidated left. They have created a debate within left and made it a force that the system can support. Deniz Baykal has expelled Kurds, Alaouites and real leftist forces from party, changed its form. He made it a statue-quo force." The Kurdish leader also said that the parties like CHP, ODP were far from meeting the need of democracy.

"DEHAP must trust itself"

Osman Ocalan pointed out that the one and only party to bring democratic transformation to Turkey was DEHAP and therefore it must have self-confidence. He said that it still had problems as far as self-confidence was concerned and added with words to the effect: "But people in DEHAP must see themselves owners of the country and patriots more than other parties. The democratic block should claim the values of the people more. It must trust itself infinitely. It must be ready for both power and opposition. All doors in Turkey and Kurdistan are wide-open to the leftist block. It is true that the Turkish media try to silence them but they can reach people by going from house to house. They must relate their projects and convince them."

Reminding that solution to all problems were dependent on the development of democracy, Ocalan said, "If it is managed, all dynamics of the society will set into motion. Democracy is the remedy of all problems. And only the leftist block has such potential."

Turkey saw the reality

The member of KADEK Presidential Council criticized that Turkey threatened South Kurdistan with war and emphasized that it was a big mistake: "Turkey must see the reality more than anybody. There was a war lasting more than 15 years and it caused grave problems. About 40 thousand people were killed. Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria must get along as democratic countries. There should not be separate states in the Middle East, existing states must become democratised and get along well with each other."

Federation in South

Ocalan said the following on federation in South Kurdistan: "We believe that if elections in Turkey yield positive results, democratisation will have no barriers. As for the other parts of Kurdistan, the need for democracy is felt burningly. The Kurdish problem must be solved as soon as possible. Therefore we say that at this period there is no need for a separate state. But federation is necessary for Kurds. For it Kurdish must train themselves. There has been an uprising in South for 84 years. Thousands of people were killed. It was turned into a dungeon by colonialist leaders. A federal unity should be established with a democratic approach in mind. We do not want a separate state. In KADEK program we ask for education and broadcasting in mother tongue. But Turkey limits the right. The right must implemented as broad as possible. If the Kurdish people is represented in the parliament, there will be an alternative. We believe that it will have effects on South and advance the democratic unity."

Ocalan also called on everybody to make a unity between Turkomans, Kurds, Arabs, Yazidis, Assyrians and other groups and on Turkey to stay away from war.
But his junior partner, the conservative Motherland party, backed Turkish "participation" in a war on the grounds that it was better for Ankara to be involved than to be left on the sidelines.

4. - KurdishMedia - "Kurdish Commander: No one will again defeat us on Kurdish land":

20 October 2002 / by Bryar Mariwani

In an interview the Associated Press, a Kurdish commander in the Soran base in Iraqi Kurdistan claimed that the Kurdish forces would try to capture the oil rich areas in case of an American military strike on the Iraq.

The commander added that Kirkuk is the capital for the Iraqi Kurdistan and they are ready to fight for it to the last man.

The commander of 50,000 strong Iraqi Kurdish armed forces said, "Kirkuk is Kurdish, so are parts of Mosul". He stated that these areas would be taken by Kurds when the American attack starts.

The Kurdish commander declared that the Kurdish people love peace and unity. He said that these areas are Kurdish lands and they simply want it back. "We do want to attack. We want to defend our territory and the Kurds", the Commander told the AP.

The Commander also pointed to the risk of Saddam Hussein. He said, "The usage of chemical weapons against Kurds is possible. He has used them before. Saddam is capable of doing everything"

5. - Washington Post - "Let the Muslims Win":

ISTANBUL / October 21, 2002

By Jackson Diehl

The Justice and Development Party, leading the polls for Turkey's upcoming elections despite the banning of its leader for pro-Islamist propagandizing, has a clever way of describing its new agenda. "Our aim is to bring more democracy to Turkey and to increase the level of human rights," says Mehmet Muezzinoglu, its Istanbul chairman.

For some, that could mean more freedom of expression, more minority rights, more of what Europe is demanding of Turkey before it will consider offering it a place in the European Union. And for others -- perhaps half of the party's potential voters -- it could mean giving women the right to wear Muslim head scarves in schools and other public places, a concession that might well be regarded as a casus belli by the Turkish military.

That cloudy prospect is one of several reasons Turkey's vote for a new government in two weeks could be crucial to the Bush administration's emerging effort to transform the Middle East. Turkey's next administration will take power just weeks before the opening of the winter window for a U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, and it will be a central player in any war and in the postwar construction of a new Iraqi order. It will likely be greeted by a disappointing and possibly destabilizing decision by the European Union, at its December summit, to again postpone action on Turkish membership while admitting the Greek half of Cyprus. It will assume control of an economy teetering on the edge of a financial crash and dependent on continuing aid from the International Monetary Fund.

And, if the polls hold up, all this will be mixed with the latest attempt by moderate Muslims to democratically acquire and exercise power in a NATO country that borders Europe and Iraq, where the Bush administration promises to install a representative government that would begin a regional makeover. Can Islam and democracy be safely combined? Another failure in moderate, pro-Western Turkey would not be a good start.

Yet so far the Turkish campaign has tended to reinforce what is emerging as a bad regional model: allowing democracy free rein, so long as the wrong candidate doesn't win. In the Turkish case, that is Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the popular 48-year-old leader of Justice and Development, who once openly campaigned on an Islamist agenda but now says he has changed his politics. Erdogan was ruled ineligible because of his 1998 conviction for "inciting religious hatred" -- something he allegedly did by publicly reciting a 90-year-old nationalist poem calling minarets "our bayonets." The Turkish military, in its guise of protecting the secular Turkish state, forced Erdogan out of the office of mayor of Istanbul, just as it had previously forced the resignation in 1997 of Turkey's first prime minister from an avowedly Muslim party.

Such interventions have been embraced by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, who, after announcing the creation of a military-led "national security council" on the Turkish model, banned his two leading civilian opponents from this month's parliamentary elections. The same logic guides Washington's announced policy on Palestinian reform: General democratic elections must be held, but Yasser Arafat can't win. The results in both cases have been dismal. Musharraf succeeded only in shifting votes from secular democrats to extremist Islamic candidates, while the Palestinian elections are on hold, thanks to Arafat's enduring popularity.

Erdogan and his party are doing their best to break this pattern. He has dropped explicit religious themes -- and even the word "Islam" -- from the party platform and has embraced the policies of the Turkish center: pro-European Union, pro-NATO, pro-globalization. The party says it will accept the International Monetary Fund's bitter medicine and signals that it will cooperate, even if reluctantly, with a U.S. war in Iraq. Ten percent of the Justice and Development candidates are women. Erdogan's wife, who wears a head scarf, has promised to avoid public functions if, after an election, his party succeeds in lifting the ban on his holding office.

Some in the Turkish secular elite have begun to think that this could work -- that Erdogan's party, which is polling at more than 30 percent, could form a centrist coalition and a new model: not of a democratic Islam, perhaps, but of a Muslim democratic party, one that could legitimately channel religious feeling within the political system, rather than trying to exclude it. Yet even this cautious course is provocative to many in the military. They are convinced that Justice and Development is a Trojan horse that inevitably will seek to subvert democracy.

Most likely they're wrong, and an Erdogan government would seek to do just what its campaign promises: broaden democracy. That's a horse the Bush administration should back.

6. - AFP - "Fourteen years on, poison gas still chokes Halabja":

HALABJA / October 21, 2002

by Stefan Smith

For Doctor Tahsin Ali, the only thing that has come close to being quite as sickening as an Iraqi poison gas attack was one of the latest soundbites from US President George W. Bush.
Just the other evening, he explained, he was watching satelliteTelevision when he heard the US president upping the ante against Saddam Hussein by pointing out that the Iraqi leader had "even gassed his own people".
"In 1988 they closed their eyes to Halabja, because Saddam was the enemy of Iran. But now he's the enemy, and they are using my town as an excuse," complained the doctor, who heads the hospital in the Iraqi Kurd town that Bush was clearly referring to.
"We feel bitter, used, sickened."
Ali narrowly survived the March 1988 gas attack on this once-bustling town -- to which the international community's immediate response was silence -- and still remembers the sound of Iraqi jets unleashing their deadly cocktail of gas.
The attack, apparently Baghdad's revenge for the local peshmergas' -- or Kurdish militia -- support to enemy Iranian troops, killed at least 5,000 civilians, mostly women and children.
Many are now buried in mass graves in the barren hills that overlook the town, situated around 240 kilometers (150 miles) northeast of Baghdad and next to a high ridge that marks the border with Iran.
"I saw things I will never forget," Ali recounted. "When the jets bombed there was a strange sound, not like conventional bombs. Then someone came to our house and shouted 'Gas! Gas!'.
"So we got in the car and closed all the doors. We had to drive over dead bodies to get out. I saw a woman who had blood spurting from her nose, her ears and her eyes. Some people were vomiting green liquid. Others were turning black and their skin was bubbling. Others were laughing before falling dead."
"Then I could smell apples, and I fell unconscious. When I woke up, all I could see were hundreds of bodies."
He was 15 years-old at the time. Experts believe the Iraqi air force dropped a variety of chemicals, including concentrated tear gas, mustard gas and the nerve agent VX -- all developed when Iraq was plied with weapons from countries such as the United States, Britain and France.
But Ali said the story did not end there.
Pulling from his desk a medical dossier that looked more like a horror story, he read out a list of ailments he said are well over normal levels.
"Asthma, Downs Syndrome, miscarriages, still-births, sterility, chronic skin and lung disorders, cancers including leukemia, birth deformities such as cleft palates, blindness, cerebral palsy... Those who died straight away were the lucky ones."
"For every 200 patients we treat a day, I suspect 20 percent are related to the gas," he said, before presenting Suhaila, a woman about to give birth to her fourth child.
"From the ultrasound we think the baby has a deformed head. But we hope we are wrong."
According to a study conducted by a British researcher four years ago, such cases are up to five times above normal levels in this northern Iraqi Kurdish enclave. Doctors here even said genetic illnesses were on the rise, suspecting the toxins were still slowly altering victim's DNA.
"We don't have the facilities here. We need specialist equipment, research, medicines," Ali complained, adding that this eastern edge of Iraqi Kurdistan only has one mental health worker while many survivors were still battling psychological conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder.
For obvious reasons, the doctor said, Halabja's population is well below its pre-1988 level of 80,000.
"People here are afraid of more gas attacks, but we'll all be happy if Bush can get rid of Saddam. I suppose it's better late than never."